WONDERFUL!

Of all the beautiful Bond girls, and of all the beautiful Hammer ladies, she was the most gorgeous. At least that’s what most of the editors of fanzine Schokkend Nieuws felt about model, actress and cult movie star Caroline Munro. So when she came to a fan convention in Heerlen, The Netherlands, in October 2000, no less than three of them drove down there to meet her: Bart Oosterhoorn, Roel Haanen and Jan Doense. Fir Suidema came along as well, to present her with his own release of the MANIAC soundtrack. Hammer expert Jan asked most of the questions.

I’ve been in The Netherlands before. Once for the James Bond film and I believe for MANIAC as well. But the first time I’ve ever been in Amsterdam I was flown in for [THE GOLDEN VOYAGE OF] SINBAD together with Charles Schneer. And he said: I will show you the sights. And I was really quite young then and he took me to the red light district and he said: this is one of the sights. I remember it was quite beautiful, but I was very young and naive.

You were the only actress to ever be under contract from Hammer, right? At least that’s what I’ve read.

It’s what I’ve heard, which was very surprising to me. I suppose it was because it was at the end of Hammer’s reign. Maybe they didn’t know it was heading towards the end. I hope I didn’t finish them off. It’s a strange thing, that I was the only one. I had a contract for one year, during which time I did the two films: CAPTAIN KRONOS [VAMPIRE HUNTER] and DRACULA A.D. [1972].

You and Ingrid Pitt did only two Hammer films each and still you are the two most famous Hammer actresses.

Ingrid certainly, because her roles were very substantial. I mean, I was killed off pretty quickly in DRACULA A.D. And the second one, CAPTAIN KRONOS, was very badly received at the time. It didn’t have much recognition. Maybe it was ahead of its time, because it was really soft. It didn’t have any sex, it didn’t have much violence. It was meant to be more of a spiritual thing, more intellectual. But the fans didn’t get it, I think.

I just saw it again yesterday and I noticed how in some scenes it seems to be an homage to the expressionist horror films of the thirties. The art direction is gorgeous.

That is exactly the reason why it’s somewhat of a cult film now. It was Brian Clemens’s directorial debut and he was wonderful. He was as nervous as I was. But I loved the film and I loved my part in it.

Was your role first written as a gypsy? And was it rewritten for you?

I have heard that, but I’m not sure what happened there. I believe they chose me for the part because I was under contract and I fit the part physically. I actually had a choice between this and DR JEKYLL AND SISTER HYDE, but because I didn’t want to do the nudity at the time – which in fact was minimal – they eventually cast Martine [Beswick] and she was wonderful in that role.

She had a resemblance to Alan Bates…

Uncanny! She looked wonderful in that part, far more than I ever could have. She was brilliant. I wouldn’t have been the right choice. It worked out ideally.

Aren’t you sick and tired of being constantly associated with Hammer and the Bond film?

No! If I’m associated with anything I feel thrilled that people actually bothered to go and see the films. That they put their bums on the seat to watch a bit of my work. That I’ve entertained a few people. I’m proud of that.

When you were working for Hammer they were just going in a new direction, more sexualized.

I suppose it was all kind of blatant, the way they used the females. But KRONOS didn’t have anything titillating, whereas DRACULA A.D. did. Maybe that’s why A.D. was a success and KRONOS wasn’t. But also, A.D. had a great cast, with Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing.

How were they to work with?

Cushing was just like my grandfather. Wonderful, kind, sweet man. So gentle. I worked with him twice. In DRACULA I didn’t have any scenes with him, but I did get to know him better on AT THE EARTH’S CORE. We were in scenes together all the time on that one. He was very funny. I didn’t realize what a sense of humor he had. On our first picture he was in his sad period.

After the death of his wife.

Yes. But in 1976, when we did AT THE EARTH’S CORE,  it was a wonderful time. He used to adlib a lot. He wrote a lot of scenes and dialogue and he used his own props, like the umbrella. That was his. It added a certain eccentricity tot his character.

And Christopher was totally different. Equally awe-inspiring. I kind of got to know him quite well. He’s got a great presence and charisma, but he’s such a gentle chap, not at all like the characters he plays. I loved working with him as an actor.

He didn’t like DRACULA A.D. as much, right?

Because of the modernness of it all, yes. The dialogue is very funny. It was meant to be hip at the time.

At some point Lee wasn’t happy being typecast in horror films anymore. You’ve also done a lot of genre films.

I suppose I have. It’s funny how one sort of slips into a role like that. I don’t know why that is. But in the latter stuff I did, the European films, before I had my kids, I was finally permitted to play a woman, instead of a girl in skimpy costumes. Nothing wrong with that. At the time it was good. But suddenly you want more. Obviously it comes with age. In Spain and Italy I was allowed to do other things. I was in Spain recently and I was asked by Paul Naschy if I was interested in working with him again.

You did EL AULLIDO DEL DIABLO with him.

Yes, I recently met him again at a wonderful film festival and I actually got to see the film. They gave me a lovely golden unicorn award thing, which was great. I also sat in the jury and I saw all these wonderful films: Japanese, Spanish, Italian. And Paul was very nice. We discussed working together again. He’s got such an integrity as a man and artist.

He’s really devoted to the classic monsters. Especially in EL AULLIDO DEL DIABLO he gets to play all those characters.

I like that film. It was quite a clever film. His son was also fantastic in that film.

That was his real son?

Yes, and I saw him at the festival. Now he’s big, tall and beautiful. In the film I play the housekeeper who’s rather manipulative. She isn’t very nice, but she loves the boy. She wants to look after the boy. But in the end she’s out for herself. It’s an interesting character.

I don’t know if I should bring this up, but there’s something funny about the love scene you did with Paul Naschy.

Oh?

Well, I’ve seen a lot of Naschy’s films and I’ve noticed that there’s always a love scene and he’s always on his back during them. Except for the scene he did with you. Suddenly he’s on top.

That’s weird, isn’t it? I wonder if that’s good or bad.

I read somewhere you were raised in a convent.

No, oh no! I went to a convent school, in a tiny little village, outside Brighton, where Rudyard Kipling grew up. But I had my mum and dad. There was a period when I was young, when I thought about becoming a nun. It lasted about a month. Raised in a convent! Where did you read that?

In an American book called Cult Movie Stars.

They always like to exaggerate: raised in a convent and then she goes on to do all those films! I’m not even Catholic. I went to that school because they had a good sports program. I was very keen on games. And it was in the village, so it was convenient.

You also worked with Jess Franco.

He also wants to do a project with me, but I’ll have to think about that. I’ve only seen a couple of his films. Doesn’t he make cheeky films now?

You can call them cheeky. What were your experiences with him?

Well, I was doing a play in Geneva and he phoned me up and said he wanted me to do a film. This was FACELESS. And I said: send me the script and I’ll have a look. So I read it. And a journalist from Fangoria whom I spoke to on the phone at the time warned me: You have to be very careful about the angles! And I said: What do you mean? And he said: You have to be very careful about the way he shoots you. So I thought about it and decided to do the film. Mainly because it had some great people in it. It had Stéphane Audran, Telly Savalas, Chris Mitchum. Wonderful cast. And I liked my part and I liked Jess. He had a lot of  enthusiasm. But I was aware of the camera angles. There was a scene where I’m put in the shed. It’s a very brutal scene where my character was supposed to be raped. Apparently he had said to the actor, who was a sweet big man who didn’t speak any English, that he wanted it to look as real as possible. He told him he wanted me to really struggle. He didn’t tell me, but I was made aware of how Jess works. So I had double knickers on, double bras on, and the man was ripping my clothes and I was fighting and crying. And after Jess yelled Cut! the man was also crying. He was so sorry about it. It was really strange.

Did you do some production work on MANIAC?

No, but I did put some money into the film. They ran out of money so I invested in it.

How did you feel about the film when it was finished?

Well, I must sound so naïve, but I didn’t realize…  Joe [Spinell] and I were attending a Fangoria convention in New York and he told me their actress hadn’t turned up to do MANIAC, because she was still working. Her name was Daria…

Nicolodi?

Yes. She was the original choice, but hadn’t turned up for whatever reason. And Joe and Bill [Lustig] both asked me if I would do it. Now I had worked with Joe before [on STAR CRASH] and I looked forward to staying in New York and working with him again. So I asked if I could read the script and Bill said: I want to show you the type of film it is. So we went along and he took me to HALLOWEEN. I had never seen anything like it. It was the late seventies. It was an eye-opener. Bill said: I want this sort of intensity. So I slept on the script, literally. A strange habit I have. And I said OK. First scene we shot was the restaurant scene, which was pretty much adlibbed.

That was cut out, wasn’t it?

Yes, it was. A lot of stuff was cut.

Which is a pity, because as it stands, it’s inexplicable why your character would fall for Joe’s character.

Do you know why? A lot of the scenes we shot got lost for some reason. We did a lot of scenes building up to the relationship: our common interest in music, photography and art. We were listening to Frank Sinatra together. They were nice scenes. But they were lost. And Bill was very upset, so was Joe.

But when you saw the final film, weren’t you shocked?

Very shocked. I was flown in from England for the premiere. They had all these people, wonderful actors like Robert Duvall. And there was little me from England. And I saw the film and it was so brutal.

Some people think the film is very misogynistic. What’s your opinion?

Well, he does also kill one man. I was asked to go the Los Angeles premiere as well, but when I heard all the women’s groups were up in arms against the film, I thought: No way! I chickened out. I suppose it is unfriendly to women, but it was based on the Son of Sam case.

But David Berkowitz killed couples. Not just women.

That’s true. Anyway, I have only seen the film once and a half and that’s enough for me.

Do you like the horror genre at all?

I love the old Hammer films. They were romantic, they had a richness about them. I love the way they were shot. It’s an ethereal thing.

You did another film with Joe Spinell called THE LAST HORROR FILM.

Yes, that was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I’m not sure if it came off that way. It was a very hard film to make, because we filmed at the Cannes Film Festival and obviously we couldn’t rehearse anything. I love doing things in one take, but this was really tricky. We had to fit it in with the festival. Joe was wonderful in the film.

He was very involved in the project.

Yes, he lived it. I loved Joe. He was very eccentric, but very caring at the same time. He had his demons, but everybody who worked with him loved him. We were going to do another film. He phoned me and said: Alright, Munro. Get ready, we’re gonna start another one.

Oh, I have a question about your name. I used to pronounce it like Carolyn Munro, which makes it sound like Marilyn Monroe. Did anybody ever think Caroline Munro wasn’t you real name?

I suppose people have thought that. But it is my real name and it’s pronounced Caroline. Munro is Scottish.  Very proud of it. I have my crest on my wall at home. My dad was in the Gordon Highlanders, so I’m quite proud of that. In fact, the Munro’s are the oldest clan to come over from Spain. They came over in 898. They were pirates and cutthroats and they raided Scotland and stayed. Not so proud of that of course.

Well, we’re all Dutch. Our ancestors were colonizers and slave traders.

But you’re all so nice!

We have to make up. There was talk of a Vampirella adaptation in the seventies and I remember rumors that you were going to play the lead role.

I was going to do it. There was talk about it and they asked if I would do it. I think Martine [Beswick] would have been a better choice. She was a little bit more…

I disagree.

Well, it would have been great to do. But I don’t know if it will ever be made.

Oh, they did a version of VAMPIRELLA a few years ago.

They did? Who played her?

Talisa Soto.

Oh, wonderful! I know her! She’s perfect. I worked with her on a photo shoot for Vanity Fair. She was there also. A lot of Bond girls were. We were photographed by Annie Leibowitz, which was a great honor.

What are your current activities?

Apart from being a mother to my two lovely girls I am mainly singing. I love to sing. I’m doing some country rock stuff with a chap called Gary Wilson. We actually did a few performances. We did a few in England and one in Baltimore. We did one in the Hippodrome for a thing called Vampire Rock or something. Ingrid [Pitt] was there also. It was a bit out of our league. They had all these heavy rock bands there.

And film wise?

There are always a lot of maybe’s in this business. I get contacted a lot by young film makers with big plans, and some of them sound quite good. But they have to come to fruition.

Wasn’t there talk of a DOCTOR WHO production?

It’s actually going through a law suit at the moment. My husband and his partners bought the rights to DOCTOR WHO ten years ago, but the BBC has been a bit naughty. I have to be careful what I say about it though.

But I would like to work more as an actress at this stage in my life. I’ve grown, especially the last ten or twelve years. Becoming a mother, losing my parents. I feel there’s still quite a lot there to come out. I just have to find the right thing.

Related talks

• Ingrid Pitt

• William Lustig

• Ray Harryhausen

• Ken Wiederhorn

This interview first appeared in a shorter version in the Dutch fanzine Schokkend Nieuws. Above is the full version of this talk, edited only for clarity.

Special thanks to Marcus Brooks, manager of the Peter Cushing Appreciation Society for letting us use photo’s from his website